New build?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/3SYZYDWER08CZ

I'm going to overclock what's possible & Safe.. what do you reckon? I mean, BF2 is the worlds most intensive game (ROFL. No.) so.. I'm happy I can run PR on Medium/Low @ 1028x720 so.. It's going to be a massive shock. Any suggestions to improve for cheaper? I'm saving like a bas***d + my birthday for this, So i'm pretty much 2x what I think's reasonable. -.-

What do you want to spend, what do you expect performance wise and at which resolution will you be playing? Also, what do you want to do in the future? How long do you want this PC to last and at what settings of/for future games? Are you happy to run low/medium in 3 years, or do you still want medium/high at that time?

The 5850 is a really old card by now (already). Sure, it will run BF2:PR without any issues, but there are way better cards at hand. Mainly the 6870 or the 6950 will add a lot of performance for a reasonable price.

I am also not sure if the RAM will fit together with the CPU cooler. The Vengeance sticks have these little heat spreaders up top, that make the sticks higher than regular RAM. This might cause them to not fit under the huge cooler you want to put on your CPU.

you should be able to run pr bf2 easily, pr arma not so much but it all comes down to budget. i have an 5870 and can still play most games on quite high, but like nixy said if you can stretch ya budget try for a newer card to "future proof" . i personally will never buy another ati card due to their firmware but dont let that put you off

Tbh, the HD5850 beats the HD6850, but not the HD6950+ (Obviously) Might want to check your stats. the 8800GT still pisses on other cards, despite age for an example.. And Catalyst/Physx drivers are shite for both sides, But Idk your viewpoint, Intel for CPU's, ATI/AMD for GFX. my rules

strange you say that, My mate runs the same build (Albeit worse, less RAM) but with i7 2600k, and he runs at stock, even with it's added hyperthreading, an OC'ed 2500k would beat that.. He runs witcher 2 maxed & Crysis 2 easily.. :/

Hmm, the GTX 560 Ti looks pretty nice, I'ma going to have to look deep into benchmarks here. It's a HD 6950 VS GTX 560 Ti.. both expensive though, looks like others are going to have to be considered.

The heatsinks should fit, Vengance's aren't too big tbh.

Take a look at this thread then: lol dutch website. Yeah, it's dutch, but you can read the graphs. The first number is the minimum amount of FPS and the second number is the average FPS during the benchmark. Press the next button to see benchmarks for other games as well.


The 5850 is about equal to the 6870, for comparison.

s**t.. my cost has already spiralled, And I've ran out of corners to cut. BUT.. from someone running i5 2500k stock (3.3? I'll be running at 4.5Ghz..) + Minimal OC'ing on the 6950 (Cheaper than the GTX 560, I prefer ATI, but less overclocking headroom) and he got like 60 FPS online with BFBC2.. BF3 won't be too much above it.

I've been power-reading through reviews, for the sake of 3fps here and there, I'm happy with my current set up

Well i p;lay with a 5 pound keyboud and its does me snd !

Don't worry about graphics cards yet save them money and keep what you got if it runs what you play now ok. With the new CPU running at 4.5ghz use the money from the graphics to get a H70 sealed water cooler. I have the H50 and run a i5 old type at 4ghz and 29degs on the temp. so the new type i5 will be fine. Also with the new CPU ram etc etc your currant graphics card will have a new lease of life.

PR is CPU intensive so you will notice a big difference. BF3 isn't out till october some think it will get pushed back but the new COD is out NOV 11th so they will want BF3 out before then so it will either get bumped to DEC or jan or even get released buggier than an arachnid house party.

Use the time to save for a even better graphics card then you can afford now as by time BF3 comes out the card will be 3-5months out of date price wise and the new gen cards are coming out in Nov so expect a big price drop and you will get a lot more for your money then instead of now.

Id even use the money on a SSD then you will a blinding computer and a new graphics card in 3-4 months. Makes a lot more sense.

Orford wrote:Id even use the money on a SSD

This. I love mine. Boots W7 in 30 secs, shutsdown in about 5. Never have to defrag, games load super fast. Worth every penny

Nahh, Being 15 I'm not the wealthiest person on the block, so no SSD's for me Just yet.. But it's not just PR i want it for, Obviously I will be still playing PR, but I do want to have Skyrim, Battlefield 3 (IDK however consolish it's turned, I'm still getting it ) and other future games and play them as they were designed. DX11, 4x AA, x16 AF, and maxed settings.

EDIT -
Current rig btw. It's shameful.. It can *barely* play PR at Med with 1028 x 720.

Win 7 Ultimate 32-Bit
Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, ~1.9GHz (Non OC'able, Mobo limitations)
2 gig RAM
Page file is 6gb total (Tried it, didn't do much.)
Radeon X1650 (Now I'm confused, it's rating went up since I put another gig of ram in it, It is a 512mb card, but as I've added more ram the display memory is 1gb now, but dedicated is 255mb, shared 767mb)
Res - 1280x1024


Oh, and I already have stuff ready, I've already got a gaming mouse and keyboard, I *could* use my old case, but I don't think it's big enough (the HD6950 is f*****g huuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggeeeeeeeeee), and I've got a crappy monitor with the best res being 1280x1024, but.. I'm going to attempt to get a 22" HDMI tv and use that as a monitor anyway.

Well like I said, give us your budget and the resolution of your monitor. We will be able to build a proper PC around that much more easily than guessing


As for the SSD, there's quite some cheap ones that really do the trick already. You won't need to buy a 300 quid one to get those results.


Edit: okay, 1280*1024 .. with that kind of resolution indeed a 5850 will be more than enough. That is a rather low resolution compared to modern day monitors.

1280*1024 = 1310720 pixels
1920*1080 = 2073600 pixels <-- this appears to be the 'standard' nowadays.. though it's a shameful resolution for gaming, and 'gamers' should know better to get a monitor at this resolution :!: . Nah, just kidding, but I do feel that this whole '1080p' (okay, I must now wash my mouth for using that term *shudders*) hype is.. wrong for gamers. What happened to the good old 16:10, or even 4:3 monitors? I want more height on my screen, not more width.. This whole new 22:9 for BluRays/Home Cinema is even worse. Okay, rant over .


Anyway, that amount of pixels your monitor has really gives your GPU a breeze, compared to higher resolutions. It's also true that lower resolutions depend more on CPU speed rather than GPU speed. That certain games depend more heavily on CPU instead of GPU is not connected to that, it's an added 'bonus', and can be either in your favour or can be shitty.

Also, I'd like to advise you against using a TV as computer monitor. I've heard very bad stories about that. More so than good ones. They often are too slow, and have a hard time with colours.

SSD? I just got a machine with two 30gig drives... Raided up they get a windows experience score of 7.9!

ill hopefully be getting my own little comp in a few days.. =]
Happy Timez!

I'm not gonna go into details, but I've spent over £3k on 2 computers and monitors and stuff, I have a i7 and a i5 rig, all from overclockers and from what I've learnt is.

You can spend thousands, you can spend penuts, and get the same result if you do it properly.

Some people swear by water cooling, I like wind power, I have antec 1200 cases for airflow,

I have eyefinity, running off a 6950 2gb, but can only use one monitor for some games and use triple for things like dirt, oblivion and racing games.

Shop around, overclocking is easy. Finding a decent overclock that can be serviced ( overclocking usually gets no love if theres a problem by the manufacture)

SSD for windows and your favourite game is good, but load it up too much and it might as well be a clunky old external hdd

My advice in short lol.

Decent size case to allow futureproofing and biggest graphics cards, power supply better to have more and not use it then need it, graphics, pick your poison, it's very personal, the best advice, is good keyboard and mouse, you could have the best rig in the world and use a old ball mouse!

And speakers/ headphones, again very personal I'm a audiophile, I love sound, spend as much as you can, or as little as you can, your choice

Meh.. I just want a decent build, But.. The amount I can get is so limited it's pointless. I'd say what.. 300 max? For that, It'd be a dodgy as f**k Phenom II X4, which is budget. I'd love to have the nice things, but quite simply put can't afford them, so I put a wishlist together to dream with. The quality I want can't be got on the budget I want.. You find me a decent PC that's future proofed, BF3/Skyrim capable (and well) for 300 quid? I'd eat my own excrement.

i was speaking to a mate lastnight an he bought decent stuff of ebay and other sites for next to nothing, its a risk but he has overclocked his cpu and ram and not had any probs after 2 months, worth a check if ya on a budget

300 is tight, but sure it can be done!! Anyway to make it 500? Jobs? Loans? Gentleman callers? Get down the shops and get custom Pc, they have a budget, enthusiast and millionaire rigs broken down into separate costs

Voodoo wrote:Meh.. I just want a decent build, But.. The amount I can get is so limited it's pointless. I'd say what.. 300 max? For that, It'd be a dodgy as f**k Phenom II X4, which is budget. I'd love to have the nice things, but quite simply put can't afford them, so I put a wishlist together to dream with. The quality I want can't be got on the budget I want.. You find me a decent PC that's future proofed, BF3/Skyrim capable (and well) for 300 quid? I'd eat my own excrement.

Excuse me saying this, but saying a Phenom II X4 is "dodgy as f**k" is just absolutely absurd. My OLD PC, which had an AMD Athlon 64x2 6000+ and an nVidia 9800GT 512MB still ran games well, so how you can say something which is a heck of a lot newer than my old rig, is bad, is beyond me. Sure, it might not be as fast as the brand new technology and hardware available, but how on Earth does that make it slow? It doesn't.

You're getting drawn in to the "high end" market way too easily.

As Nayt said, you could spend thousands on a machine, and have everything absolutely blown away in terms of performance. Or you could spend a fraction of the cost, and still play games bloody well!

I upgraded to a 2nd gen i5 based rig partly because I needed something with a lot more oomph for rendering purposes, and also because I had been working bloody hard all year and it was essentially my bonus that paid for it. It was a reward to myself.

I seriously suggest you stop looking at benchmarks for the time being, decide on a set budget, and let us / some other person specify and review what you should purchase, and why. When you look at things yourself you will take an age to come to a decision. Register on www.overclockers.co.uk forum as well, such a vast knowledge base there, someone will be able to get you the best possible rig for your budget...

Sorry, I have a large predujice against AMD processors now, after two CPU failures. At stock clocks + 1000W PSU, I can't decide what killed 'em, but I don't want to tread AMD territory again. I know this sounds fickle but.. It's wasted money and AMD didn't want to know about it, Amazon couldn't help.

GREAT NEWS - I convinced my mum, after about an hour, to let me dip into my 'When I'm older' bank, so.. This computer is being built. Birthday Money + Summer job + Bank money = THIS http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/3SYZYDWER08CZ

Anyone suggest improvements? price cap is £660 now.. I'm aiming to max Skyrim, BF3, ARMA 2, and play ARMA 3 at high/Maxed (Doubtful of maxed, but whatever) and I'm looking to overclock, I'm hoping the Motherboard is fine (I've checked and had good ratings as a cheap yet amazing mobo for an i5 2500k, which allows the multipliers to work)

I've been lurking on the Overclockers forums a while looking for parts, I'll make a proper account. I've also been active at Sevenforums, they've got a huge base for W7, but the hardware section tends to come up to rigs and gaming.

You would be alot better getting a pre overclock bundle, all ram, processor and mobo are matched then (from overclockers)

And have you checked that the graphics will fit in the case? The 6950 barely fit into my antec 1200

Why would you need a pre-overclock bundle? The items he selected will most likely work just fine, without spending extra on a motherboard with features he will not use, just because overclockers.co.uk says 'it's better'.

Yes, I'm pretty much happy with my rig, I'm suited with every component apart from my GPU. The (2gb, I upgraded) HD6950 will fit (Not *too* roomily, but it'll fit with space to spare) and it can be flashed to a HD6970, buuhhttt.. I'm a little of an ATI fanboy, I know an OC'ed HD6950/70 will beat a GTX 560 Ti, but the 570 is £80 more than my 6950. Any suggestions to a GFX at the £200 mark?

I think that it's now impossible to flash the 6950 to a 6970 nowadays. They changed some chips/firmware on the newer models that was meant to fix that. I wouldn't bet my money on it that it is at all possible. If it is, you're a very luck man, but there's virtually zero guarantees.

As for the 200 pounds mark (bloody keyboard doesn't have a pound sign and I'm too lazy to copy trololol) the 6950 will suit you very well. I am not particularly biased towards either ATi or nVidia. Both make good cards, with ATi having slightly better price/performance in the long run. Plus that the GTX560 Ti doesn't really deserve the Ti mark.. it's not that great a card, imho. I'd take a GTX570 myself now, but I'm not that limited to a budget

Got a 6950 2GB sat in here. Nothing really pushes it yet, it's an amazing little piece of kit. With regards to flashing BIOS's, be really careful with it, and I wouldn't recommend doing it in the first place. I know several people that bought them, flashed the BIOS's over and a week later the Capacitors all popped on the cards. They're not meant to carry everything that the 6970 has coded in.

Just do a small overclock and be done with it.

The BIOS flashing can still be done, but only on reference design cards (they have a dual-bios switch) if you do really want to go this route, but I would highly advise against it.

Really? I didn't know about the capacitor problem. That's put me off, the OC'ing I'm totally fine and well informed about, but the BIOS was a new one to me, so I probably shouldn't have meddled anyway.

What's your CPU/RAM? I'm just interested as to what you play/how well it plays.. ARMA 2 is a biggie for me

I can properly run ARMA 2 on full settings with my current computer, on 1680*1050 resolution. Average of 30/45 FPS, with 4x AA.

CPU: E8400 overclocked from 3.0 to 4.0 GHz
RAM: 2*2GB OCZ Reaper 1066MHz (running at 1000 actually, due to OC of processor)
MoBo: Gigabyte X48-DQ6
PSU: Antec EarthWatts 500W
GPU: XFX GTX260 overclocked
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB

So you're sure to have no issues at all with the new rig.

http://www.hwcompare.com/6142/geforce-gtx-260-vs-radeon-hd-6950/

Jesus, You can run it pretty damn well, I'm going to be shocked at how well I can run stuff I think, I've never had an amazing PC to begin with.. I'm extremely looking forward to my rig now! I'd expect 50+ fps or so from ARMA 2 if I were to run at your settings, PLUS I'm on a 19" monitor.. so I'm limited to 1280x1024 so it won't look THAT great, but it'll play like a beast hopefully!

It's 30/35 FPS, of course. Slight typo. But it's still very good I think. I don't notice any stuttering/FPS lag at all.


With a 1280x1024 your computer will be complete overkill

EDIT: Nixy, do you get any stuttering/lag at all? Say when zooming in/out. Also what FPS do you get in the city on zargabad? What view distance you play at?

Voodoo, that rig looks pretty good for the money, the CPU cooler is average though (especially if you care about noise), might wanna invest in a slightly better one if you are gonna overclock. Also, I know I go on about it, but SSD! even a small one for your OS and most played games. Makes a HUGE difference

Heheh, could be worse Nixy.. I don't run a HD6990 on a single monitor (Like an idiotic friend with too much money) because he doesn't know what the f**k to do with a computer! I plan to rob a HD tv from downstairs, it's a 22" but it's got a HDMI so.. That's probably what I'm going to use. I think 22" is 1680x1280 (I can't remember the second number on resses too well )

And thanks Capitan, and for the Money (A bollocks load of it, for me at least) it better be! What's your rigs specs? Sorry to pry, but I find it interesting and can compare how mine would run if yours runs well/bad etc You DO keep going on, it's noted.. but I just can't afford to bump on another £90 for a 64gb one, But.. It's going to be a pain in the ass to get one later as I plan, as I'm going to have to reformat and re-install the OS onto the SSD >.<

EDIT - Any other good CPU coolers though? I just heard good Bang for Buck reviews and though 'Oh well!'. It's also not too intrusive, but my G.Skill module's heatsinks aren't oversized compared to vengance's!

I said on average.. Zargabad is terrible for everyone . It's about half in there I reckon.


As for coolers: Ehm, Scyte Mugen 2 rev b.

Can't use, no Socket 1155 support.

The Mugen 2, rev b will fit without a doubt.

*Facepalm* Amazon didn't come up with the rev b. Found it now, Yeah it will fit. Is there actually anything worth changing now? I think it's down to a T now

Everything seems in order, yep yep.

*cheer* Now.. to check it all fits, and to put the actual things in! (I'm fine with everything on the Mobo, but I've never installed a mobo by itself, and I've heard something about having to sort out the BIOS when you first boot the mobo? I've got an OS pre-sorted, I'm just a bit panicky about breaking/damaging things

My rig:
Core i7-930 @stock clock, 30-40deg
Noctua NH-D14 (it's f*****g gigantic) with a couple noctua fans on, running at really low RPM so it's dead quiet.
6GB Corsair somethingorother RAM
MSI GTX570 FrozrIII @stock
Antec 900
XFX 750W PSU
120GB SSD & 1TB HDD

I run stuff at 1920x1080, PR is a breeze maxed, 50-100FPS, mostly 100
ArmA2 mostly high 40-70FPS (haven't played for ages so can't remember if this is accurate)

I kinda wished I waited 6months or so for the sandy bridge CPUs but meh, this should last me a couple years at least. Haven't even OCed it yet.

Yours is looking pretty good. Check out Scan/Aria/Overclockers for deals and stuff, you might be able to get very similar or the same stuff for cheaper. As for building/setting up, its very simple mate, there isn't alot you'll have to do in the BIOS other than change boot orders and tweak a few settings. They all come with fairly detailed manuals as well. Its a good idea to have a read of some guides or have them open while you're doing it. Don't forget a Disc drive!

The mobo will be delivered with a BIOS that will support your CPU. Don't worry about that.


As for assembling a PC, there's some tricks to it.

1: Patience. Don't do things fast. I know you want to use your new goodies, but things -are- fragile and it will take you several weeks longer if you break it.

2: Ground yourself. You're working with electronic components. Static electricity can ruin them completely!

3: The CPU will only fit in one way on the socket of the mobo (most likely, anyway). Don't try to force it in, but gently lay it on!

4: Thermal paste for the CPU cooler: A drop the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the CPU will be enough. It's meant to fill the tiny holes so the cooler and CPU connect completely. The stuff itself only conducts heat when it's very thin, so don't go smearing that stuff on like toothpaste.

5: RTFM. No, seriously. The manual that comes with the mobo will show you where each pin must go, since you must connect pins for the on/off button, the reset button, the LED light for harddisk activity, the USB connectors etc etc. In the manual is specified which ones go where.


As for general construction order, I recommend this:

1: Take mobo and lay it on your bed or something and instal the CPU on it.

2: Place Mobo + CPU into case. Do not forget to place the extending screws!! The mobo must be free from the backplate, otherwise you will short-circuit it when you turn it on.

3: Remove other panel from case and install cooler + backplate.

4: Place RAM in slots 1 and 3 (if cooler proves to be too large, use slots 2 and 4). The matching slots will have the same colour.

5: Connect wires from case/fans to the mobo.

6: Install PSU and connect the wires to the mobo. Do not forget the 4 or 8 pins connector that is next to the CPU socket! This is needed to boot! There might be a little plastic cover on it, so look for it .

7: Install the rest of the hardware. GPU, Harddisk etc.

8: Connect remaining PSU wires.

9: ???

10: Profit.

Awesome, You and Capitan have both been a gargantuan help, Thanks! I'm just debating.. You seem to have a better card with the GTX570, but I think with the i5 2500k + P67 = Major OC'ing potential.. I'd be on 4.5GHz (I *Know* this is stable) I'd assume that although I don't get the added Hyper threading, sheer power will triumph. GPU's not too bad though, when it's OC'ed.. should be keeping up with that pesky GTX570

By all means, the 6950 is an outstanding card. The GTX570 is a bit superior to it, but the price is much higher as well. I wouldn't worry about getting a GTX570 if you're already fighting your budget. With your monitor resolution you will not notice any difference whatsoever.

As much as I love PC's.. My budget is restricted, and I don't find the aim in paying £90 more for the sake of 5 FPS.. Oh well. If I can play BF3, Skyrim, ARMA2+3.. I'm happy. No more, no less. And PR.

That'll be no issue. And in 2 years it'll be enough to just replace your graphics card. The rest of the hardware will still be pretty good.

*fist pump*. And with the very, very, very, very rare occasion that my mum's letting me dip into my savings.. I had to bullshit alot of things to reason to her why'd it'd be good for school work (everyone needs i5 2500k's and 8gb ram for school work.. right?) and 'only a little bit of gaming'.. I don't think she bought the excuses, but I'm really, really excited in the nerdiest way possible.

HAHA that is exactly how I got my first custom build "Yea mum I need a 200 quid graphics card for my computing course at college" muahahaha! Getting new build is pretty great, when you first fire it up and it's all working right, feel the pride that you made it. Then load up your games and be amazed that you can now run them at 100fps.

The sandy bridge cpus are great OCers so you wont need to replace that any time soon. The 6950 is plenty for the resolution you plan to run at.

This is a decent newbie guide if you need it http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=183202

also, try to be thinking about cable management as you are building, its good to keep them tidy and creates better airflow. Cable ties are your friend!

Err, I don't do tidy. You haven't seen my room.

Just to let you know, do not put your mobo or any other part on your bed. STATIC is real and will kill your parts very fast.



Best place to build is in your kitchen as you probly have a tiles floor or any thing that isnt carpet.



Step one would be put your PSU into your case (id got with 800w if your intending to over cloock the CPU and GPU)



Step 2 plug your PSU into the wall but dont turn it on. Use it as a earth point and every now and then touch the bare metal of your case this will discharge and static you male as you build.



ffs dont build it in a room with a carpet and double ffs dont put any part of your PC bits on soft furnishing or the floor.



If you get stuck take some picks and post here we will help you.



I have built loads of PC`s overclocked them and upgraded more PC`s then I can remember, even the mighty Kopite and his PC that can run NASA comes to me when his PC is fooked.



Good luck, dont be scard just be sensibly.



My Rig,



i5 At 4ghz

Gigabyte P55 UD3 Mobo

2x ATI 5770 Xfire

H50 water cooling in push/pull 2x apache black fans.

8gb corsair XMS3

Intel 80GB SSD

500GB Spinpoint F3

Cool Master 690II case. with 3 more Apache black fans.

22" Iiyama Pro-Lite monitor.





When I play ArmA II I also host the server for 15 of us on this machine. On full setting 1440x900 cos I like that res others are crap for my eyes.

Flight sim when I get round to it I duel screen twith the 32 in LCD in the front room But it is my house so I can.

I've had no issues so far when building the PC's I made on a soft surface, aka my bed. I don't know what you do with your quilt but there is no static electricity here .

As to why I do it? Because lying your mobo on a hard surface, like tiles you mentioned, the first few times when messing about with a CPU socket and just a tiny bit of force can easily f**k up some pins on the back of the mobo.. wouldn't want that to happen now do we?

It's all fair you mention it, because indeed most soft surfaces are prone to static electricity, especially carpets and what not. But if you use the right materials, everything should be fine.

I take out of the box, an lay it on the foam it came on, onto of the box install ram, CPU, cooler and bosh, straight in, power, parts, cables, screw it all down and in et voila

I never mentioned any thing about doing it on the floor, its the surface you stand on. You stand on static filled carpet in plastic based trainers or shoes then that static gose from the floor into your PC parts. I was refering to the kitchen sides work tops wtf would I or any one else build a PC on the floor.



You are one lucky dude if your bed linen is 100% natural and no man made fibers in it. As the linen holds static if that what you do and you got away with it then your lucky. Also on a soft surface you are more likley to snap the entire mobo as the part you press on sinks and the rest of the mobo bends around the part your pushing on as it has no support underneith it.



Put the mobo on the anti statci bag it comes in then onto the carboard or foam (like nayte said) from the part of the box it came in as its made for holding it.



If you no nothing about static electricity or never worked where its a issue then please blindly carry on making PC`s on your bed. Cos I can assure you Nixy you have been lucky and im sure Voodoo who is 15 and his mum is upping his budget would prefer not to be "lucky" but carefull of the £660 his mum just spent.



Its your call voodo you pays your money you takes your chance. Im a service enginer and Kop is a senior electrical enginer and national service manager for one of the UK largest companies. Static kills electrical componants FACT!



Done be scared be sensable. now wheres my spell check.

Ìf you have a backplate on your CPU cooler, you sometimes have to actually place it behind the plate your mobo will be 'on' (separated by those little screws). So you can't always install the cooler right away. But it is indeed an option

The foam + box is also a good idea. That foam was designed to be anti-static anyway


And I might have been lucky, but I said like 6 posts before that static electricity will kill components. I know that . I might not have been building PC's for as long as you have, but I am doing it a good 6 years now and have made a small living out of it .

Either way, if you're not sure, go with the foam. I must admit I forgot about that yesterday night.