Recon

So, Recon is not thath you take heli ride behind enemy lines, Build FOB and kill everyone. I want to tell you about some recon action. Its about being as stealthy as you can.

Some simple rules for being stealthy: Shoot only if you have to. Report ALL contacts. Avoid large firefights. Recon squad should never attack large group of enemies. When you are in position(roof, hill etc.) spotting enemy troops, be front of dark bacround, you wont be noticed so easy.

Contacts, There is 3 kind of contacts. 1: enemy have spotted you, and you have`t spotted enemy. 2: You have spotted enemy and enemy have not spotted you. 3: Both enemy and you have spotted each other. In 2 you have all options availeble: Engade, Fall back, Observe, Call backup to kill them. Engading should be done whitout giving away your own position. Sniper is excelent for this job.
And the main rule: Longest way is the best way, which means thath you wont be going whit vehicle on main road. Walk away from enemy positions and select best place to move in.

Distance, Keep some distance beetween squad members. Also using the "Two by Two" can be usefull when checking buildings etc.

Smoke, DO NOT USE IT IF NOT NEED TO. Smoke will give your position away, use it only if need to, your man lying wounded on road and you need to cover it. After using smoke, get away from the area as quick as posible.

One squad, one round! Only have one recon squad in round. You dont need more than one recon squad to fill the objective.

And little tip for squad leaders: Use the observer markers, not attack or move markers, everyone will hear when you place move or attack marker.

And if you want proper recon action, join Fiethays squad. Hes best squad leader I know. Let me know what you think about this. Is it total spam or is it something you can use?

Some good advice there mate.

Spam!!

:p

Thanks for contributing, its good to have these posts from time to
time. It helps to promote team play and shares ideas. I agree with the
your comments, however I would make a point in saying that, there should only
be one recon squad on a team in PR. It comes down to man power needed
to full fill the objective of the round, even more so in AAS.

I think of importance is, how you deal with an enemy should you come
under fire. Especially, how do you break from a contact, i.e withdraw
under fire to reposition for an organised attack. In PR this is going
let you live longer and your squad mates will enjoy the experience more.

I normally set up my squad with three areas of responsibility in mind,
Support, Secure, Assault. I don't necesarily tell the squad thats what
they are specifically, the format is for my reference.

Support:
AR & Rifleman (with ammo bag for AR). If you know your going to be
up against heavy armour I would swap the Rifleman for an AT.
Alternatively you could add a sniper for long range cover.

Security:
SL & Medic

Assault:
Specialist & Riflemen.

When moving tactically, these three sections are positioned as so within a
column as much as possible. Support at the rear, Security in the middle
and Assault to the front. Now what does this have to do with recon
tactics you ask, well this is the basic structure for any scenario
giving you maximum flexibility.

The scenario:
The squad is moving tactically through a hilly area when they are engaged with
small arms fire from a tree line to the front. You believe it is from a
squad of similar size and that you can break from contact, regroup and
take them out.

Execution:
The enemy position when identified needs to be marked so that suppressing fire can be put down
from your own squad. In PR the SL needs to encourage squad members to
do this as often people will just go into cover and not return fire.
Once suppression has begun and the SL understands the situation he can
quickly plan the break from contact.

The Assault section (Rifleman & Specialsit) move quickly to a position to the rear.
Once there they turn and begin suppressing again. Next to move is the
SL and medic (Security suction) who move to the rear next to the
Assault section, they too return fire once there. Lastly the Support
section up and moves to the rear position under cover of the two other
sections. This withdrawl continues with these moves until the squad is
out of the contact. All the time the SL is orchastrating the moves
keeping up comms.

The squad is now in control and is able to mount a counter attack. The SL positions the Support section (AR &
RM) as a base of fire team. They cover as the rest of the squad flanks
the enemy, i.e. they move using the cover of the land to a point to the
left or right of the enemies postion. All the time the support section
is providing suppressing fire. When the attacking portion of the squad
is ready to hit the enemy the SL and medic (Security) cover the Assault
section as they run into the enemies emplacement from the side.

Once the enemy have been nuetralised the attacking portion of the squad
regroup and then move back to the Support sections position.

All too often players will go Rambo and run around blatting at the enemy
and ultimately getting killed themselves. By using the above it is easy
to control squad members effectively to survive and hopefully give it
back in spades.

Hope this helps.

Your post is very good for normal squad action. But usually recon squads are smaller(max 4 usually), and I like to use this set in recon squad whit 4 peoples: Marksman/Sniper(depending on objective), Officer, Specialist, Medic. Thath set gives you ability to long range fire, rope, shotgun for breaking doors, and first aid from medic.

I think its important thath recon squad have ability to eliminate targets from long range. In the recon squad I was marksman saved us from lots of troubles. Edit: And I added thath only one recon squad in one round.

My friend, if your breaking doors your not a recon section. Your Assaulting.

A recon team within a large battle space would typically be light and fast moving. An example being a Humvee section. A long term fixed recon would typical be a two man sniper and spotter team, a different asset than the mobile recon. The Humvee recon team would be better suited to PR as it allows flexibility to provide intel across the map when required. The squad when dismounted would then utilise the above tactic if coming under fire. Of course the movement under fire applies to vehicles also, one provides covering fire whilst the other advances or withdrawls.

In my opinion a Recon Squad would be made up of 2 men Simple really a sniper / spotter I wouldnt see the need in anymore men ( just give aways ) =]

Reading through I thought to expand discussion a bit.
Looking from RTS player point of view I would combine kits like this to give myself versatility in how to use squads:

assault and defense aka Marines - those guys will do all the heavy duty of holding and attacking flags, smoking, suppressing, flanking, all the sweat close combat.
1.squad leader
2.medic
3.automatic rifleman
4.rifleman
5.rifleman AT (HAT if no designated squad could do)
6.rifleman specialist (or AP for defense)

sneak and support aka Rangers - best friends of Marines will provide insight in to enemy movement, use position for advantage and support fire, sneak on fobs from behind if needed.
1.sl
2.m
3.marksman
4.grenadier
5.sniper
6.rifleman (can be switched for Humvee)

so called recon - 2 are fine but what for sniper rifle ? coolness only and tbh any squad can designate 2 man to perform reconnaissance mission in any given time but the
Scout job is to provide wider intel/laze (both Hellfire and Hydra missiles will do job better than any rifle not even mentioning 500 lb baby) so stay invisible or move a lot, avoid engagement to avoid detection to survive. Sl+borrowed from Rangers specialist(aka Jevski ) for super mobility and you can skip on medic if you have some balls.

Add small squad of HAT with two rifleman's and another squad with engi in it for other support and logistic missions and you got yourself pretty potent force.

LAV, AAV or tank with only 2 crewman's can fill many roles but with all the noise there is no stealth factor.

...and btw when it comes to communication I love simplicity therefor I propel idea that when you see an enemy you report spotted/sighted and when you get fired or sighted than report contact, one tells everyone to stay come and continue with plan/procedure/mission but take extra caution and second say that hell is coming and this is when adrenaline should come.

You just need 1 guy, the ultimate ninja....me.

On a serious note, its a myth that placing attack and target markers makes any noise.

Enemy could hear ur attack and defence markers in previous patch . I think they changed it in this patch .

nice structure alchemist, last night I was having some ideas for 4 man inf squads, as 6 men at times is hard to manage properly. 4 men is harder to detect and its easier for them to move tactically together. The main problem with support squads is the new patch: mortars!

Attack / CQB layout
1) SL
2) Medic
3) Ironsight AR
4) Specialist

Support Layout / Long Distance
1) SL = Sniper?
2) Medic
3) Marksman
4) Automatic Rifleman - Scope

I lıke the 4 men squad way more than 6 men squads . Because as u mentioned they re harder to detect and easier to lead .

sorry to poor cold water,but, recon what ?

if your behind enemy lines to spot your a forward spotter/controller.

if your behind enemy lines to destroy something your on a search and destroy mission.

in unconventional warfare recon is used to build webs of information of groups and individuals prior to moving up their chain of command or suspect elimination. (sort of applicable in INS mode when cache hunting)

in conventional warfare recon is fast moving units probing the enemies front line, if the front line is powerful the fast moving units can retreat where as the main body of the assault is/might be incapable of fast retreat.

the only real exception is when the enemy might be holding vast reserves in hidden locations ( think the long range desert group work of WW2)

apart from probing the front line with fast moving units none of the above relates to PR, all you'll be doing is creating a lone-wolf squad. (in AAS mode)

speed

BXV-[Tr] wrote:Enemy could hear ur attack and defence markers in previous patch . I think they changed it in this patch .

No they could not, its a myth.
Not in this or other versions

yep Jevski's right,

same as CMDR is /has only ever been worth the same ticket as an ordinary soldier and the other myth i hear occasionally is that FOB's and FOB assets are worth tickets, which there not either.

keep up the good work myth busting Jev

speed

Lol . Then how on earth could i hear when my SL give me a marker ? Do i just have incredibly good ears or am i just too lucky ? ::

It is a myth that the ENEMY team can hear it. i think that's what Jevski is telling you.

yes bx as you urself are saying

"Enemy could hear ur attack and defence markers in previous patch . I think they changed it in this patch."

No they didnt change it, they could never hear it in the first place

Ok anyways . I must have gotten something wrong

Mythbusters busted it on pr forums.

I guess we all know maps so well that nobody is interested in geographical characteristics of Muttrah City but tbh I haven't even played all new maps. The only potential enemy that you can find is one of blue guys attracting bullets or running you over for unknown pleasure but apart of that and green ones that you can count on everything there is hostile. So we are left with activities and resources to think about.


Scale in BF2PR is smaller compared to real army layout where army uses 4 people in bf you can use 2 and everything is happening much quicker but some ideas will still find use. One of those things is to characterize reconnaissance missions by the depth of penetration required, in terms of time, risk coordination, and support requirements.



So we got Close, Distant and Deep. Lets discus it fallowing short operation.



Imagine situation on Muttrah: North city is secured with well established defense and fob is set to attack on next objective. One Marines squad on defense supported by Rangers fireteam3 consisting sniper and grenadier positioned on the high ground west from Marines.

Ranger team main body has infiltrated enemy lines and took watch post in the building on west edge of west city. Assault team supported by AAV make its way toward objective bypassing enemy force moving from fob to north city while Ranger team takes the high ground and sl starts coordinating mortar attack on enemy position (X) as well as directing grenadier fire from AAV.

Now just for instance lets pretend there are no Rangers. Defending sl notice there is a black spot on map where no fog of war is revealed (green square) and decides that at this stage of assault he wants to know if there are any hostile power in that position. He got leader of fireteam2 entrusted with immediate security of the current position and he orders him to find out if there is any incoming danger. Ft2L decides to take his shadow and check one of buildings and area around (o). For them two move a bit a poke around does not lowers overall defending capabilities of squad if they not die. Their only objective is to spot enemy (x) and if does so they immediately retreat and relay to sl what is known. Its not the sniper kit that make some one good scout...



... but how much information he can obtain by just glancing on enemy and still be unseen and as this might not always be entirely possible scout must also know how to improvise and stay alive, that counts jumping off balcony's to escape if needed:D. This extra time before first contact with the main body gives sl time to form a plan and relay information to supporting group as well as to squad members.

Here on Muttrah picture Ranger ft3 have sighted (x) small force moving on south east side of north city and they counted 8 people who miraculously managed to escape mortar havoc and they reporting it to sl. Rangers sl use "radio" to mark forces on map as well as informs through sl-chat the defending Marines about incoming attack and gives estimated number of soldiers, position and direction. ( resources and activities)

Those Marines work in pairs ill name them leaders and shadows, sl decides he can ambush this approaching force and lets pretend that everyone knows names of streets in place of grids, he tells to squad as well as to supporting sl that he plans to ambush that enemy in the alley between 6th and 8th street(could use claymores too). Ranger sl mark location and informs ft3 about incoming support mission and from this point Rft3 focus on that particular area of the map.

Defending Sl orders fire at will and position fireteam3 to secure west side of approach and further south to close killing zone, ft3 leader position himself on to ensure safety of that flank and moves his shadow in side of alley from where he will hold covered position facing south. Fireteam2 is ordered to secure east side and further perform flanking maneuver than sl position his shadow parallel to line holding grunt and takes position to intercept any rushing enemy.

Assuming that opposing team have not sent any scout it should walk in to engagement without chance to call for support from mortars and no mater where contact would occur (x), defending team would have the advantage. When that happens and first shots are fired defending sl requests fire support from rangers sl and order to begin flanking maneuver and before moving pokes on the corner to spot for possible enemy support.



Rsl gives green light to ft3. Notice that till that moment neither sniper or grenadier fired a shot as they were performing only Close reconnaissance - revealing the fog of war - for the defending team (yeah i know Ivan that you would already have 30 kills ) but now while they are engaging pretty occupied targets they don't need to worry about being tracked and pointed for mortars by their victims (x).



When the flanking maneuver is completed and the kill zone is locked all 3 shadow go in the alley to clear it and defending sl communicate hes intention of securing that area to Rsl who orders grenadier to size fire or to fire only on routing or reinforcing troops. (x)

I know that it sound like perfect scenario from a Hollywood movie but if it sounds like that already than there is no harm in assuming that ambush was successful and no one has escaped.

Attacking forces also had success in overrunning enemy fortifications and transport was called to bring supplies and now attacking Marines would prepare positions for deafens while our brave rines would take ride in returning heli back to Essex because new plan is already being formed and it is time to adjust kits for new mission. When everything was slowly progressing Rangers sl has sent his fireteam2 consisted of rifleman and medic with a scouting mission through the construction further south east and designated rally point at construction for Rft1 and 3 as well as called AAV with transport for Rft3.



Now two man party walking that far from the main body would be considered Distant reconnaissance, it is more risky and take more time but if it can provide intel about enemy fob position than attacking Marines from Essex can be deployed accordingly. Remember Specnaz in WiC dropping behind enemy lines and marking artillery ? Well those two scouts can provide targets for mortar team as they only need to pass information through one man, their Rsl who is coordinating mortar missions anyway(to avoid confusion when there are to many people requesting mm at the same time). If there is no commander such Ranger sl could coordinate all movement of squads as when there is to many people talking all ends up in chaos. You can say that sniper can be a sl but I rather think sniper should be able to commit 100 % time to rifle and bino's and not bother that much with "radio" (still ofc communication with his sl).

Another example of Distant reconnaissance group operating beyond immediate fire support would be party of Marnie and Ranger squad driving 5 humves on map like kokan and using force method to pinpoint enemy position. You know enemy is somewhere there but you want to get more accurate information about where but also how many and what they have there. Such a group could quickly disengage but still deal with fallowing technical or two,after that RTB or secure distant position and establish plan, commence mortar mission when Marine part supported by Rangers could use cover and approach on suspected compound. Marines are now on search and destroy mode while Rangers are supporting. Quick transition between one mission and another because bf2 is a game. Key part is to disengage at the first contact, estimate danger and reengage at later stage with a plan of action.

The only example of Deep reconnaissance that I can think of is when some one would use UAV or just 1-2 man squad to report what and in which direction is leaving main base but in reality Deep recon should be done about 190-350 km from main force and thats something unthinkable in BF2PR.

Concluding I have to say that (imo) reconnaissance is not that much matter of squad or kit layout but more set of mind and ability to effectively pass valuable informations about enemy. Just think of it what can be more cheap(manpower used) for scout party than rifleman and medic, nothing and no one will cry after them but they can go the distance and occasionally come back (or warp on the rally) and as a part of squad they are very versatile when comes to missions and can wait in room above fob for rines to land and drop that incendiary at the right time(in fact I guess with them two fob would be overrun anyway). Ranger squad is definitely unique if not elite so requires only skilled operators to run.


On the other note I think two squads of Marines are absolute minimum for Rangers to be really effective and useful ...and who says Marines don't know how to use mortars

"I guess we all know maps so well that nobody is interested in geographical characteristics of Muttrah City " (above post)

we also know how many FOB's there could possibly be, how many vehicles and of what type and we also know how big the opfor is.

recon is probing the front lines, not sabotage behind enemy lines, any would be "recon" squad in PR would serve their team much more valuably by being part of the front-line, (more medic's squad support weapons etc etc)

PR as a game has tried really hard to move away from unrealistic special forces scenarios, and that's certainly the way i prefer to play the game.

recon what ? the 300 PLA tanks waiting over the hills in Quai ? hmmm :winking:

speed

speedhound1-WYD- wrote:"I guess we all know maps so well that nobody is interested in geographical characteristics of Muttrah City " (above post)

True but that wasn't Alchemist's point, the purpose of the reconassiance that Alchemist talks about is gathering information on enemy positions.

speedhound1-WYD- wrote:we also know how many FOB's there could possibly be, how many vehicles and of what type and we also know how big the opfor is.

True but the positions they occupy is more important, in the case of Muttrah finding enemy AA and FOB positions is key. Imagine playing chess without knowing where the enemy pieces are.

speedhound1-WYD- wrote:recon is probing the front lines, not sabotage behind enemy lines, any would be "recon" squad in PR would serve their team much more valuably by being part of the front-line, (more medic's squad support weapons etc etc)

I'd disagree, perhaps not the direct sabotage, but FOB locations need to be found, a front line can be severally damaged by destroying reinforcement lines (FOBs), as well as flanking enemy positions and finding their blind spots. Enemy AT and AA positions are also good to relay to the rest of team as to allow helicopters and armour to stay away or take appropriate caution. Fighting an enemy force front means taking on the full brunt of there weapons.

perhaps the term 'front line' needs clarification.

my definition of a front line is what you can see in the map Alchy has posted of Muttrah, Docks and South city shouldn't be in play, the line is therefore east, west and north city.

any outflanking manoeuvre by definition means you are near the front line of the enemy. (also this illustrates the dynamic nature of the front line)

my point really is this, every time you put your bino's up to your face in PR your effectively reconnoitering the enemy if your anywhere near the flags in play (in AAS mode)
if east city is falling to the USMC and your MEC squad is in Docks your not a recon squad your a sabotage squad and your probably contributing to the lack of success in maintaining any credible defence let alone any attacking posture.

blind chess sounds like PR to me, hence my disinterest in (normal) chess

speed

we also know how many FOB's there could possibly be, how many vehicles and of what type and we also know how big the opfor is.

If you track points you can even say when they are bulding... but still they can't be everywhere at the same time, you don't know where they are, how far from objectives, how well defended and how many of them will attack.

recon is probing the front lines, not sabotage behind enemy lines, any would be "recon" squad in PR would serve their team much more valuably by being part of the front-line, (more medic's squad support weapons etc etc)

Close reconnaissance is there to enhance ability to react on front line. Its not recon squad but scout party on reconnaissance mission. Its not like they leaving squad to go pick up some mushrooms while rest of team is attacking or fighting to defend position. Also they are not engaging anything (Rangers are different story) and retreating if get in contact or after gaining information about enemy but mostly to ensure safe passage. Theoretically you always use medic kinda on back and mobile anyway so it is the last unit you will need to hold position. Time wise if you send medic and rifleman to scout ahead you can get them back in 30 seconds if they die but you don't lose whole squad to bad positioning if ambushed and if your current position is secured you should not need medic immediately for those 30 sec. Like in this example with flanking defending marines if MEC sl would hold in T shape building and sent 2 scouts as he had no knowledge about that area what so ever, after loosing them in ambush his situation wouldn't be so dramatic. How long would take them to go ahead, 90 sec ? Holding in one well secured spot for 2-3 minutes is not that bad idea.

PR as a game has tried really hard to move away from unrealistic special forces scenarios, and that's certainly the way i prefer to play the game.

Unrealistic special forces scenarios...? It sounds to me that you would prefer a bit more ww2 approach in todays warfare. For me insurgency mod looks like special forces extravaganza... You need strong main body, right thats why each marines squad have 4 rifleman's in it, no one is forgeting that rifleman primary tool is his rifle. (there are many like it but this one is his)



How i think of it is you could hold a line and gain a bit of ground here <--- or there ---> while losing it later again. One soldier kills another and then dies himself, occasionally support gunner will kill a bunch of fools at once. Problem with that short no mans land is that mortars (X) will find its way to your groups so holding in any open positions will be equal to death. Armored vehicles (X) are getting obliterated each time they try to penetrate deeper in to the enemy territory while infantry cant breach through those few areas that are well sheltered and even if they do usually with many loses they are getting over run by inf coming in the only possible direction. For long time theres no progress except growing count of dead than suddenly one clever sl who's squad got wiped 3rd time in a row got a moment of illumination and figures that hey" he can take heli to mosq (X) to bypass all those killing him and half of MEC team realize that only then when a flag is overrun.

recon what ? the 300 PLA tanks waiting over the hills in Quai ? hmmm

Perform Distance or Close reconnaissance to know where to stick those expensive bombs and fancy missiles. Reconnaissance is there to provide you with information that you can use to obtain finessable position. You can channel enemy movement in to a place where they can be easily death with (X). Attack party with usage of vehicle gets around channeled forces and secures position in a T shape locking fob and raining havoc on running all around enemy troops due to surprise effect (X). They knew about that position and were able plan approach only because rangers had that scout sent who seen everything exactly. My example considered medium-small force where defending part done its job and attacking its in a tactical fashion with a silent support from invisible guys and AAV but it can be done with larger forces if they coordinate well, no problem. Now thats kind of warfare I am talking about and thats what I am waiting for to see in the future.

speedhound1-WYD- wrote:
any outflanking manoeuvre by definition means you are near the front line of the enemy. (also this illustrates the dynamic nature of the front line)

Flanking is obviously combat maneuver so you can't flank something that isn't there. If someone goes to Docks to attack NC hes clearly sneaking around potential enemy positions, thats not flanking.
It doesn't mean either that to flank is to run to next corner or street as maneuver can be wide if necessary and it depends on the sizes of forces involved. For me it is easies to assume that the front line is the wide space in the middle of the distance from one objective to another.

holy s**t dude.

where did you get the muttrah city A to Z?

Didnt realise the streets had names :p

Here you go:

LMAO

Am gonna use them names to help navigate

I wanted to add one more thing. Time as one of resources.
When there is one solid front line time from spawning on fob and reinforcing line is based on distance of penetration. Let say it takes 4 units of time for squad to get from A to B. If attacking force would be intercepted at C than MEC squad would need 3 units of time to get there again. If than another engagement occurred at D that squad would need 2 units of time to attack and again 1 unit at E now before attacking force could overrun the objectives they had to win 3-4 skirmishes in not advantageous position when defending team would have to win 2 in good conditions to repel same power. Btw adding APC to that might decrees time interval that is needed to inflict damage on enemy position.